Learning Experience Design and the Power of Play with Shanice Webb

Dr. Amy Cabrera Rasmussen has as her guest today Shanice Webb, a learning experience designer, facilitator, community builder, and founder of Transcend Thought, who bridges ambition and wellbeing through sustainable, aligned success. 

Webb shares her early entrepreneurial instincts, first formal job as a teen, and how Stanford’s Life Design Lab helped prepare her for full-time entrepreneurship. 

She explains learning experience design as a practice of creating play-based, hands-on environments that support curiosity and varied learning styles.

We get a glimpse of this form of good work via an example of Webb's facilitation of a design-thinking workshop for Stanford’s Center for Just Environmental Futures, including a puzzle activity that made clear the need for collaboration on complex problems like climate justice. 

The two reflect on imposter syndrome, creating safe spaces, saying no for sustainability's sake, and suggest ways to utilize active engagement and the ikigai framework.  Webb also shares the adult "play dates” she designed as part of her work in the Bay Area.

Transcript

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: welcome to the Good Work podcast. I'm Dr. Amy Cabrera Rasmussen. I'm an educator, scholar, and writer, and the thing I love most is supporting folks who are seeking to use their unique ingenuity, lived experience, skills, and knowledge to make a real difference in the world today.

The Good Work podcast is here to provide inspiration, practical tips, and also opportunities to do good work that importantly is also good for you. 

 

Meet Shanice Webb

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: My guest today is Shanice Webb, a learning experience designer, facilitator, and community builder who is dedicated to helping individuals and teams reimagine what's possible in their work and lives.

She has a master's degree in health and wellness from Tulane University and certification as an ICF coach. with all of this, Shanice brings a decade of designing learning experiences that spark curiosity, creativity, and meaningful action. As a former lecturer at Stanford University's Life Design Lab, she taught design thinking principles that really empower people to learn by doing, experimenting, reflecting, and iterating toward greater clarity and purpose.

today she is the founder of Transcend Thought, where she creates and facilitates learning spaces that help people bridge the gap between ambition and wellbeing so they can pursue success that's both deeply sustainable and deeply aligned with who they are.

Welcome, Shanice. Did I get all of that right?

Shanice Webb: Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Thank you so much for having me. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Well, , I think you are the perfect person for us to talk with I've been lucky to be in one of those rooms before where you were, , facilitating a group at Stanford, and I follow everything that you're doing on LinkedIn, and I think there's just so much resonance with this project and what we're trying to do on the podcast.

First Jobs 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: I think it would be interesting for folks to hear just to start, do you remember what your first job was? 

Shanice Webb: I actually haven't been asked that in such a long time. So it, it depends on what you consider a job, right? Yeah. So I've always been like- creating things and then trying to generate income from the things that I create in the world since I was a really, really, little girl.

So I remember very specifically in fourth grade where I wanted to come up with an entrepreneurial endeavor, and I created these little desk trinkets, to sell to my teachers so that they could have like creative and crafty and cool desk. So I did that in fourth grade, but I also sold popcorn during lunch hours to raise money.

I've always just like thought about how do I take the things that I like, the things that I'm good at, the things that I like to create, and, and generate some sort of income off of them since I was a really, really young kid. Lemonade stands, like all the things. I've done all the things.

But my first like actual job that I had to, like sign a form and a contract and you work here- Mm-hmm ... was Arby's, the fast food restaurant- Yep. Yeah ... when I was 16 years old. It was a really great learning experience to like know what it's like to be, responsible, to show up, to provide really good customer service, to make friends with the people that you work with.

Yeah. I loved working there. I worked there for like three or four years- until I went off to college, and it was great. 

 

Choosing Entrepreneurship

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Well, it's so funny that you started with your, like your little mini, mini Shanice like entrepreneur story because I think, one of the questions I really wanted to ask you was, you know, becoming an entrepreneur and doing this kind of creative and facilitating work and helping other people to you know, find their purpose with that sense of wellbeing, that's, you know, that's a pretty daunting thing to take on.

And I know this is relatively new for you to do this new, this new, Transcend Thought, enterprise, I guess I would call it. Yeah. tell me, how did you get the guts to, to take that on? And, and also what, you know, what's the life of a entrepreneur who's doing this kind of good work? Is there a typical day or a typical week?

Yeah. A typical month for you? 

Shanice Webb: Yeah. The typical is in the untypical for me, to be really transparent about it. But I, I do feel like entrepreneurship is not for everyone.

It takes a lot of mental capacity to be an entrepreneur. It takes a lot of, like, reframing and being willing to fail and continue to fail, and learn from those failures and iterate from those failures. Yeah. It's a part of the process. But I would say my choice to become an entrepreneur really was, was never a choice.

It's something that- Yeah ... I truly believe that I was born with. I went to college and I did really great in school, but it was never to get a job. Like, I always just- Yeah ... wanted to be social. I did decently in college, but all I truly remember is, like, my social experiences, being a part of clubs and organizations - 

But I, I feel like I was meant to live this life. Like, I- Mm-hmm ... have a really hard time, I think sometimes, like, getting bored really quickly with doing the same thing all the time. And being an- I used to say, like, "I just don't really wanna work for people," but learning, being an entrepreneur, like, I actually just work for more people now than just, like, one person.

So it's actually, like, it's not about the working for people, it's more about the ability to create and to create the things that I want- Yeah ... and to, have belief in the things that I can create, can produce impact, can produce joy, wonder, play, curiosity in the world- Yeah ... in a way that feels right and aligned for me.

 

From Tulane to Stanford

Shanice Webb: Um, so even when I moved to California, I actually moved here for love. a guy that I dated in college lived in Oakland, California, and I was living in New Orleans at the time, and I was finishing up my second master's degree in health and wellness. And I was teaching a class around career development at Tulane, which was all about helping students do well and do good in the world.

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Mm-hmm. 

Shanice Webb: I got an opportunity to come out to Stanford and talk a little bit about the work that we were doing back at Tulane. I guess they enjoyed or, or, or loved what they heard, the, the good work that I was doing out- Yeah ... in the world that they invited me to come and lecture at the Life Design Lab.

But my goal at that time, I was moving to California for love and I was just gonna do my own thing. becoming a certified coach back in that day, like 2016, '17, I feel like the coaching industry was just, like, ramping up. And the places where I felt like, people were really doing great things was in California.

I'm like, "I wanna go to California, and I'm gonna fall in love, and I'm gonna be a coach, and I'm just gonna do my own thing." Yeah. but the opportunity for Stanford, came, and I, and I didn't do the venture on my own. I just really focused on that awesome, wonderful opportunity that was in front of me to work at Stanford, to lecture, but I always had a side hustle. Like, I was always doing some kinda coaching- Yeah ... facilitation or running workshops on the side. But I was fully committed to that job. and what I realized really quickly is I wasn't ready for entrepreneurship, to be honest. Like, I learned so much around creating relationships and community and, and building with people, and collaborating- Mm-hmm

that I feel like if I would've went out on my own as opposed to taking that opportunity at that time- Yeah ... maybe I would've wound up where I am, but I feel like I might not have learned or grown or built relationships, as- Yeah ... well as I have by being connected to a great institution like Stanford and being in community with a lot of amazing people.

So it's a long way to answer your question, that I feel like I chose entrepreneurship kinda, but really I feel like it chose me. It's always been something- that I wanted to do and create and a world that I wanted to experience. I

yeah. and there are some people like me who, who wanna create and generate ideas, not within an institution or within an organization, but solo, lone wolf. but collaboration with people in ways that feel really good and feel in community, too. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: I think that's really a great starting point for us is just for people to be thinking about, trying to find a place for themselves to be in their work that is right for them.

That there's not one path. It really can be something that is, unique to each person, and that also can be a bit improvisational or sort of like the best laid plans. you had your reasons. You were coming out to the West Coast, and then you were allowed that opportunity to kind of be something that ended up, positively impacting you in a way that then even prepared you even more for, your current work.

Shanice Webb: Yeah. 

Learning Experience Design

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: I do wanna ask you a question though, which is, you know, when people hear that you're a learning experience designer- 

Shanice Webb: Mm-hmm ... 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: as sort of like your first, phrase, I was wondering, could you just demystify that for us a little bit? Because not everybody has had the opportunity to be in a space like that, to have that kind of facilitation or that community building.

Mm-hmm. like, what is that job? Can you explain that for folks? 

Shanice Webb: Yeah, it's such a fun job, and it's such... One, I'm, in addition to being an entrepreneur, I've always loved and valued education and learning. Yeah. It's been a really big and important part of my journey.

Like I said, like, I, I did really great in college. I did really good at, in school. I was... But it never was for a job. Like, it was just like, "I'm- Yeah ... I'm here. I'm learning. I'm growing." And I feel like learning is so important, but it's just not about what you learn. It's also about how you learn, which I'm sure you're familiar with Lewin's equation, I think that's how you pronounce his name, where it's like behavior is a function of how a person engages with their environment.

And so I always wanted to create an environment where people could engage, where their behavior- Hmm ... engages around their learning.

And a lot of my work, honestly, is inspired by my four-year-old, my toddler, where it's like the way that we learn things as kids is more play-based, more hands-on. Yeah. We're building, we're touching things, and that is a natural, organic way to learn as a human through curiosity, through exploration.

But I think as we go through our journeys, our environments get more structured, more sit in the desks- Mm-hmm ... read this book- Yeah ... have this lecture, have this conversation. And I think that's one way to learn, and I think some people really do, if they're learning, I guess, Their learning style is conducive to that kind of environment, which some people are.

Yeah. Like, I learn best from reading. I learn best from sitting and taking notes. Like, that is some people's styles, but it's not everyone's style. But our education systems- Yeah ... unfortunately are set up mostly for that kind of style. And so I, when I think about a learning experience design, it's more about how is the experience facilitated, how are people moving through the experience in terms of, like, energy, activity, when they're sitting, when they're standing, when they're in community, when they're in conversation.

And thinking about the energy flows throughout the experience. Yeah. When someone is reflecting, when someone is just writing, all those modalities are really important to learning. But how you piece them together I think is special and unique. and I love just creating experiences and environments where people can tap into, I feel like, that childlike learning style that I think we let go of sometimes as we go through, like, middle school and high school, and then college is, like, all lecture, all reading, all note-taking, you know?

Yeah. And I just want us to get back to that sometimes. Like, learn by playing, learn through curiosity- Yeah ... learn through experience. and so I love creating experiences like that where people can learn. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Yeah. 

 

Climate Justice Workshop

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Is there a particular, example you could give us or, a particular, setting in which you've done this kind of work that you're really proud of?

Shanice Webb: Yeah. So many. , I can tell you about one of the most recent ones that I feel- Yeah ... extremely proud of. , So Stanford University just opened a new Center for Just Environmental Futures, where they're thinking about environmental and climate change and how it's impacting our most vulnerable, our most marginalized communities, who typically aren't a part of the conversation.

And they had- Yeah ... a two-day conference where the first day and a half was, decision-makers, policymakers, researchers, students, analysts, like anyone who, has a significant hand in the world of environment and climate change, to come to this conference at Stanford. They had a lot of panels and conversations, and I was asked to help them synthesize that experience and generate ideas to where the center was gonna go in the future. And I'm not an expert in climate change, and so to hold a space, a room full of the world's smartest and most, like, amazing people who do this work. But I was asked to do this work because I am really good at design thinking and innovation, design sprints, facilitating learning experiences where people not only can process what they just heard and what they just learned, but actually do something, take action with the experience. so I just recently did a three-hour workshop where 25 people from that conference, leaders in the space of environmental and climate justice, came together.

They played. They painted. They had conversations with each other. They ideated. So they went through the phases of the design thinking process to first synthesize and reflect on what they heard, what they learned, the conversations they had in the conference for the first day and a half, and then they left with ideas that they generated for directions- 

…that the new center could take in the future given what was coming up. so it was playful. It was fun. It was the only part in the conference where participants got to actually engage and converse with each other in this way. And so those are my favorite and I think the learning experiences that I'm most proud of.

It's like when people are put in traditional learning environments, especially for a very long time, and then they close with something that feels more playful, more generative- more community, more conversation. And to tackle- a really big challenge or wicked problem 

In like design thinking, life design, something like climate environmental justice, which is so big and so complex. Yeah. But to do it in a way where we're, like, painting with watercolors, and we're using stickers, and we're writing our rose buds and thorns on Post-Its and putting them over the walls and finding themes that are emerging.

And then there also was a live illustrator that was a part of that- Oh, wow ... experience as well, that captured the ideas that were coming out of the room. Um, and at the end of the session, the illustrator was like, "Look," like, "This is your process." Like, "This is what you created." Wow. "This is the learning. This is, these are the takeaways.

This is the direction that the center's gonna go, all from a three-hour experience that you facilitated." And to see it illustrated in that way, I was like, wow, like, not only is this fun, but it's, like, really making an impact- Yeah ... in a world that I feel like I have no hand in. Like, I, I care deeply, especially having a child, about the future of our environment, our climate, and what's happening in the world.

But I didn't study it. I'm not doing research. But, like, I can still impact that world in the way that I know how to do it through my skills through my abilities, makes me really proud to know that my work is so interdisciplinary that I can really support other people in impacting the world in the way that feels right for them. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Well, you know what's funny is I always ask a question, toward the end. I have a few quick questions

But one of the questions I always ask is about, you know, do you have some superpower? Like, something that's an attribute of you or a skill that you have that people would say, , "Oh, Shanice is really good at doing this," or, oh, you know, maybe you just feel that in yourself. And what you're describing to me is a bit of a superpower in that, you know, you're- you have that ability not only to create those spaces, but also to, help people to kind of...

Y- you can synthesize, but you more, I think more importantly is you can help them to synthesize- Mm-hmm ... and sort of take, you know, the threads and the themes that they have been, gathering over a period of, in this case, days. 

Shanice Webb: Mm-hmm. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: all of us have been at conferences or at institutes or, programs where it's can be kind of anticlimactic at the end, where it's like, okay, what are we gonna do with all these discussions- Yeah

that we've done? 

Shanice Webb: What happens 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: next? And unless... Yeah. And unless there's something like this that's facilitated by somebody who's really, intentional and very skilled, it can be very challenging, to know what's next, right? it can sort of- Mm ... just feel like, okay, we were all here and... But on such an important issue, and with people who probably are not used to being in the room with each other or at least playing in a room with each other, I feel like that can be something that is, it's not just, coalescing the, the themes, but it's, or the action steps, but it's coalescing the group- 

Shanice Webb: Mm-hmm ... 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Yeah. Is that how you see it? And do you think- Oh, for sure ... do, do you think that's your superpower, or is that 

Shanice Webb: someone else?

Yeah. No, no. I, I totally agree. And- Yeah. It was so great to see such a diverse group of people work together in that way- Yeah ... as well. And the experience that I facilitated, which I'm, I'm ha- I'm happy to share, 'cause I think it's a really great idea and more people should do it. 

Puzzle Collaboration Superpower

Shanice Webb: But the beginning of the, learning experience, I...

Well, one, my son is in, at the age where he loves to play with puzzles. And so you're like, kids, he's four, so he's at, like, 12 to 16 piece puzzles. So puzzles that will take him, like, a good, like, 10 minutes, but a, an average adult, maybe, like, two or three minutes. So I got all these- Yeah ... little puzzles, but I mixed up all the pieces, and then I put them in a bag.

And I gave each individual person at the conference a bag of puzzles, and I told them, "Your job, your only job, is to complete your puzzle, and you have four minutes." And then I only change out, like, two or three pieces, so, like, the whole picture looks like it's there- Okay. ... until the end, and you realize, like, "Oh, actually, I'm missing a piece," or have an extra piece.

Yeah. So you can get far enough to not realize that you actually have missing pieces- Okay ... of the puzzle. And people, very last minute, like the last, like, minute of the four minutes, start to realize, "Oh, maybe the pieces are in this room." And then some people start to ask each other and collaborate.

And the whole point of that is, we're all working on our own individual pieces, especially in the world of, environmental justice and climate change. Like, we're working in our silos, but these are big, complex challenges, and the only way we're gonna solve these things is through collaboration, through interdisciplinary action.

For you to be willing to talk to someone that's not doing- Yeah ... the same research as you are, and find out, like, what's going on. What puzzle are they working on? What pieces of the puzzle do they have that might be able to support you in your puzzle? And it was so interesting to see, because these are people that just met at this conference, so their hesitation to get up and to be like, "Huh, do you have a piece of my puzzle? Are you missing a rainbow? Do you need a leaf?" Or, like, whatever the m- missing piece is. It was such a huge, like, aha moment for them that it's like, even in this room working on a really small puzzle that's not real, like, I'm s- I still have hesitation of asking for help.

Yeah. I still have he- hesitation- Mm ... of, like- asking someone what piece of the puzzle do they have and letting them know what pieces I am missing, you know, especially someone- Yeah ... I work with on a regular basis. So those experiences are something that I, I feel like is my gift and my superpower to know, like, what does this space need and how can I approach it in a, in a different way where the learning objective isn't so obvious, but they can actually feel the impact of what happens when you don't collaborate?

Right ... afraid to ask people to support you or to, to, to help you in what you're doing. So yeah, I think that is a superpower, but I also think I was just really born with the gift of gab, and this is, has been a way that I've been able to capitalize on that gift. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Uh-huh. 

Shanice Webb: I definitely don't have any technical skill.

I don't have a lot of attention to detail, but I can talk to just about anyone. So I think that- Yeah ... really plays into facilitation, for sure. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: I love that example, and I was waiting to see how it played out. But I think you really just, y- when I asked you to demystify what, a learning experience designer does, you literally just did that.

Because I think, most people have not had the good fortune to be in a setting where that kind of creativity is brought to bear with learning and, Mm ... and community-building. And so I think you gave everybody a little bit of a glimpse. And I was carrying along, I was, you know, you were carrying me along as you were telling the story, so I know anyone listening is, is thinking of that as well, and how those aha moments can be so significant.

Good Work Needs Community

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: and it also fits with something that I talk about a lot, in my work here with The Good Work Project and the podcast, is that I think oftentimes people who are seeking to go into that work, so in this case you were dealing with folks who were already, you know, established in the field- 

Shanice Webb: Mm-hmm

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: a lot of the people that I work with, I find that sometimes they get a little bit- stymied or, like, nervous thinking about how can they solve a particular problem. they get overwhelmed with the many enormous, complex problems, the wicked problems, as design thinking says, that are out there.

And sometimes they feel like if they can't solve it all on their own, why even try? Mm-hmm. Or how to, how to bite off the piece that they can. And I think that you really just illustrated very clearly that even people who are established, who have been doing this sort of work, they need to help each other.

Shanice Webb: Mm-hmm. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: They don't have literally all the pieces to the puzzle. Right. 

Shanice Webb: Literally. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Yeah. Um, you know, or figuratively. Um, and I think that in my mind, like, part of why I like to emphasize that point a lot is because I think it takes a bit of the pressure off, is to say it's not all on you. Yeah. It's not all on me, on one individual.

And in fact, many of these folks, I'm guessing, that part of the diversity that you had there was also, like, a generational diversity. 

Shanice Webb:  Oh, for sure. Um- For sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was. It was... I was so surprised. Like, I've never been... Like, I've worked in higher education and experience design and facilitation, and that's one world, and I think that draws in a certain kind of person.

Yeah. And to be in this space of environmental- change and, and climate justice. And to even see the diversity of the people who- Yeah ... are approaching it in their own very unique ways. Yeah. I was very surprised to see the people who showed up in the room. It was very, very diverse. And I think that that is also what made the learning experience so beautiful, is that when you're able to radically collaborate with people who might have the same idea of what good work feels like for you or looks like for you.

But everyone- Yeah ... has their own unique approaches. They have their own unique intentions, and, like, ways that they want to, manifest this work out into the world. I think it's like the more diversity in good work- 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Yeah ... 

Shanice Webb: the better, and the bigger problems that we can begin to solve, through that collaboration, and collaboration with radically different people who think different, who have different lived experiences--different educational backgrounds. So yeah, good work is so important, but it's even more important to do it in collaboration, I think, with other people- Yeah ... in the things you do. Yeah. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Yes. Yes. 

Imposter Syndrome and Safety

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Um, okay, so my next question for you is related to sort of, how you see yourself, and y- as you're sort of doing this kind of work.

and, you know, everyone's familiar with the concept of imposter syndrome, or most of us are familiar with it, or you at least know the feeling, which is where, you know, I sort of just describe it most briefly as, you know, when you sort of feel like you're in an institution that wasn't built for you, and you feel like maybe your sense of, who you are doesn't match with that group.

Who are you to do X, Y, or Z? 

Shanice Webb: Mm-hmm. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: I have found that even though I- I've continued to feel that way, and I've been in a lot of institutions, you know, that are not maybe built for me, over my years, whether in grad school or, you know, even in the university, other settings. I believe that sometimes it can bring you something positive in that there can be a benefit to being unconventional or an outsider, you know, even taking on, like, being a misfit in a way.

I'm wondering if you ever feel like you're an outsider or unconventional member of your field in any way. And if you do, is there a little edge that you think it might give you? Is there some leverage or some perspective that you think is allowing you to help, do the work better, to do more good work?

Shanice Webb: Yeah. I'd be lying if I said I didn't. Like- Yeah ... I have always felt like an outsider. I've always felt like I worked in spaces, not even just the field, but just, like, rooms that I've been in. Yeah. Like, I've just, I've always felt a little off or a little different. and this might sound a little, confrontational, or what's the other word, controversial, I guess, is a word, but I recently started doing Pilates.

I promise this is on topic, so walk with me. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Oh, we'll stick with it. Yeah. 

Shanice Webb: I recently just started doing Pilates, and at the end of the class, the instructor... Pilates is, like, the hardest workout I have, I've ever done. By the end of the class, like, we were just, like, laying and catching our breath and before we transition out of the class, and the person who was facilitating the class basically said something around, like, "A lot of us are looking for safe spaces, but what if we were to create them within ourselves so that no matter what space we show up in, we feel safe, we feel secure?"

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Mm-hmm. 

Shanice Webb: I don't know if that's always possible, but- Yeah ... I would say that I've been leaning into this mindset of, like, I don't think there's, there's anything wrong with feeling imposter syndrome. I've felt that way many times. Mm-hmm. And if you're in a room where you feel uncomfortable, I think for me it has been important for me to first recognize that I'm, that I'm in this room.

So if I'm in the room, I'm already supposed to be there, because I'm here already. Now, what you do in that room, no matter how you feel being a misfit or not feeling like you belong, or the space wasn't designed for you, I think that is the hard part, is like speaking up and sharing who you are. And it's one thing to just be in the room, it's another thing to be yourself and to really show up fully- Yes

in the room. And I would say that I'm just now at my ripe age of 37 getting to a space where knowing that I'm uncomfortable in those rooms, but also feeling safe to be uncomfortable in those rooms- Mm ... and to begin showing who I truly, fully am. Because what I've noticed is that when I have began to show up fully, there's at least one other person that's vibing with me.

There's someone else- Yeah ... who also is an adult who loves K-pop demon hunters. Like there's also someone in the space who like also loves hiking and biking. So no matter how different people seem on the inside, I feel like there always is some sort of similarity- Yeah ... or connection, but you have to be willing to share those pieces of yourself to find those pieces of other people- Yeah

There are some people who like obviously they don't look like we would be each other's people, but until you actually have a conversation, until you actually learn about the person in front of you- Yeah ... you're like, "Oh, we're actually more alike than we think." We actually have more in common than we think, too, but we have to be willing- to, to share ourselves in those spaces. But I would say that it has served me over time, because when I say like m- structures that are, weren't always built for me or didn't feel like I was belonging, for me that shows up a lot as race, like being the only Black person or Black woman in the room. and for me, that has actually given me a lot of sauce.

Like the reason why that puzzle activity hit so well is because I ran it a couple times and it didn't always go good, but I like iterated on it over time. Yeah. And, I would say like being willing to be in those spaces and to fail and to try again is so important. So yeah, I think it is your secret sauce. In creating these facilitation experiences, I've grown a lot over- Yeah ... creating experiences and, and learning.

And a friend of mine said that no matter what you do, you bring a vibe. Yeah. And so I feel like there is something that's unique to you that's, like, your own vibe that no one else can bring to the space but you. And if you're willing to show that, I think it reaps so many rewards than harm that you might possibly be afraid of by showing who you really are in those spaces that weren't designed for you. But I feel like if you're there, you can make it yours 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Well, in a way, something you're making me think of is that in effect, your whole job that you've created for yourself is about making those spaces.

I mean, you're redesigning those spaces to be more inclusive, to allow for vulnerability, to allow for those lessons to be made. But it's also partly making it safer for yourself or people that you feel like are often not included. And so I think that's actually a really, I hadn't thought of that connection when we first started talking about this, but I think in a way, like, you're kind of redesigning institutions.

Like- Mm-hmm ... that's part of what you're doing. So- 

Shanice Webb: By holding space, yeah. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Yeah. 

Shanice Webb: For sure. 

 

Creating Your Own Table

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Well, and I guess in a way, like, facilitating is a way to... you're not always able to make it a safe space for yourself. But, like, facilitating and being the person who's designing that room is, in a way, making it safe for yourself, and hopefully by extension it sort of spreads out from there.

Yeah. your vulnerability, your comfort or working through the discomfort, your iteration can be something that, kinda goes out in waves that helps the other people who are also in your learning experiences. 

Shanice Webb: Yeah, for sure. And I would say there have been, not a lot, but a handful of times where I've showed up to facilitate in a space where I didn't feel safe and I didn't really feel welcome. And I just also took those as learning experiences of like, well, those aren't my people, and maybe those aren't the- Yeah ... spaces that I'm supposed to be in. But I would say those experiences are what have helped me find my people, and to know- Yes ... like what spaces, if I can't create my own sense of safety in a space, how might I at least work with people where that doesn't have to be my number one concern?

It's forced me to definitely clearly identify who are my people and where are the spaces that I wanna be in. And sometimes it is about creating your own table, and it's not about being in someone else's, and I think as, as women, as people of color, we have to be willing to build our own things, create our own tables, no matter how hard it might feel or the adversity that we come across. But it is possible if you're willing to create and build and to feel uncomfortable along the way, and possibly maybe even fail, uh, along that journey too. But yeah. Safe spaces aren't everywhere, but you can create them, you can build them, and you can bring your own sense of safety, I think, into a lot of spaces. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Well, and, and I think the one additional thing I want to just underline, is also what you mentioned about how there's also a wisdom that comes from that experience, and like a self-knowledge of saying, "Okay, that wasn't for me."

Shanice Webb: Mm-hmm. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: because it would be ridiculous to think that every space could be made safe just by sheer force of will or- Right ... you know, clever facilitation. Yeah. there may be some spaces where in the end it's just not a good fit, and it's something that you can then learn and say, "Okay, maybe there's a different space that I can, either go into or create for myself, and find other folks who are like-minded or who want this sort of same, you know, same sort of sense of community or interaction."

And I think that's, that's a skill also of something- Yeah ... we build over time. Yeah. 

On Finding Your People

Shanice Webb: How do you go about finding and creating safe spaces in terms when it comes to the work that you wanna create in the world? 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Well, it's funny 'cause I guess in a way I've done something similar in that, you know, to the extent that it's possible working within a large institution like a university or higher education, I think I have always sought to find my people, whoever those folks are.

Especially in graduate school, that was like a lifeline for me. I think I found people who were like-minded, who had similar, you know, experiences, similar backgrounds, and I really cultivated those friendships. You get to know each other and you bond during those times of challenge.

I think also being a professor is a bit like being a learning experience designer in a way, in that, you know, in the spaces that I happen to lead, like a classroom or, you know, when I was chairing in my department, things like this, there's things that I've realized I can do that help to create that space.

 

Teaching With Vulnerability

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: It's never perfect, especially when, you know, you have a class of 200 people or something. You can't be perfect in that way, but you can make it more and more, supportive of different kinds of folks, whether it's learning styles or experiences. You know, I teach on politics, so it's always a very heavy and- Yeah

and, um, at certain moments it can feel, you know, nerve-wracking, I know, for people, so I try to create it by showing my own vulnerability.

Shanice Webb: Yeah. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: So my next question for you, is whether or how, I guess how, because I think I know that you do.

So- Do you feel like, there are certain ways that you have started to make sure, especially in this phase of entrepreneurship, that your good work is also good for you?

Shanice Webb: Yeah. 

Entrepreneuring and Scarcity

Shanice Webb: I would say that even though I feel like I've been entrepreneuring since I was four years old, fourth grade, whatever- 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Yes ... 

Shanice Webb: I still feel like this is the first time, like almost two years now, where I haven't had a W-2. So I still feel like I am kind of still really new in this entrepreneurship space, like full-time entrepreneur. And the first, like, year and a half, it wasn't good for me. Like, I was saying yes to everything because I was operating out of a scarcity mindset. I had a lot of fear. Also, like, these opportunities were coming to me. Why not say yes? I mentioned multiple times that I have a four-year-old.

Um, my husband and I live here in California, but all of our family, we're both from Ohio, all of our family is back at home in Ohio, so we don't have a lot of support here, so we're kind of like each other's support. in that first year and a half of entrepreneurship, I was on a plane at least once or twice a month.

I was flying- Yeah ... a lot over to the East Coast. I had a lot of opportunity over there. And, like, even I, I went home to visit family in November, and during my family vacation we left and we drove to a gig that we had. And my, my husband came with me, and it was kind of cool to, like, bring my husband to work with me, and he got to, like, take pictures and see cool stuff.

So that was a cool experience, but I, I never turned it off for a year and a half. It was like- Yeah ... hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle. 

 

Saying No For Sustainability

Shanice Webb: And so now I really am just in a space where I'm building what I feel like is sustainable for me, or what I feel like- Yeah ... is sustainable. And for me, what that looks like is being willing to say no to things, even if it feels good, even if it's easy, money, even if it's, you know, like something I've already done before.

Saying no to things just out of comfort, just out of, like, fear of if I say no to this that something else won't come. What that feels like for each entrepreneur is gonna be different. People have different capacity. Yeah. It depends on, like, where you are in your journey.

Like, I'm someone who's just starting to have a family, but if I were to be starting entrepreneurship in my early 20s when I didn't have a family or a mortgage, all those things, that might, that might have felt sustainable for me. But now- Yeah ... just getting where I am in my journey, that moving and traveling and being on different airplanes, to just facilitate and to do good work out there in the world, but at the risk of not being there for my family or being there when my kid has a tummy ache or has to go to the doctor's or the dentist.

I just recently said no to a really big opportunity that I typically would have said yes to in the past, and I'm still navigating what that feels like in my body- Yeah ... considering this was a couple weeks ago, and nothing new has come in replacement of that.

But trusting that in time and creating space for that alignment, for something that feels, more in connection with the direction that I wanna go in with my entrepreneurship and my facilitation and designing learning experiences versus where I am coming from, it's really hard. Yeah. Like, it sounds easy.

Yeah. Like, just say no to things so you have more space for like time- Right ... and sleep and rest and be with family. But it's really hard to say no, and it's really hard to find that alignment. And my advice to myself is to just- Yeah ... trust in the journey, to honor my body and my mind, and to use intuition as a way to know, like, do I have the capacity right now?

Will I have the capacity in the future and how to navigate those things. but it's really hard. I, I recently just saw a friend who also is an entrepreneur who just posted something on social media that said, like, entrepreneurs are only people who leave a 40-hour job to say, "I'm not gonna work for someone," to then go work 140 hours a week for themselves.

But for some people, if they're just starting a family and they're just having kids, having a very clear 40-hour-a-week job, a 9:00 to 5:00, is where some people are and what they need right now, and I think just honoring that--taking intentional steps. Like, taking a moment to just reflect on how that year- Yeah ... and a half felt for me, and pause for a minute, was really important to know, like, that wasn't sustainable. That's not gonna work for me in the future.

I think it's a balance. It's a tough balance, but I think- Yeah ... anyone who takes on this journey, their balance is gonna look very different than my balance and my sustainability. so yeah, I'm still learning and still growing in that space. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Yeah. 

 

Balance And Curveballs

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: I think we're all works in progress, but I think partly just even talking about it and letting people see that it is a struggle or it's a work in progress, it doesn't come perfectly, easily, or naturally, I think that's just a good way to kind of pull back the curtain and say, like, all of us are trying to figure it out still.

Shanice Webb: For sure ... 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: It's just something all of us have to do, and it may be something that changes over time, you know, as you take on different, responsibilities in your family or at work, or as life hits you in different ways. you know, even if you feel like you've reached some new equilibrium, it may be that- get a curveball and something, something 

Shanice Webb: No, actually you're going to get a curveball.

Like, that's just, like- Yeah, right ... what it is, right? Like, it's just life. Yeah. It's so unpredictable, 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Yeah ... 

Shanice Webb: But I think being willing to have honest, open conversations- Yeah ... like the one we're having here, and to be able to ask that question, and for me to reflect on, like, ouch, like, actually I haven't figured it out.

Like, I'm in process. Yeah. I'm still... But being able to even say that to myself out loud and give myself that grace. Yeah. Like, you're not where you were a year and a half ago. You're going to a place that's new and building something that does feel sustainable, that does feel good in my body, that feels good to me.

It's not just good work in the world, but it's- Yeah ... good to my own human experience, too. I think that takes time, that takes energy, that takes sacrifice, too. 'Cause what's always good work in the world might not always be good for your body, and what's good for your body and your mind- Yeah ... might not always be what the world needs at that time.

But being able to get clear on what you value and where you are on your journey, your capacity and what you need, and to be able to talk to friends who are also- Yeah ... navigating the same thing is, I think, one of the best ways to navigate the process of figuring it out. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Agreed. 

Shanice Webb: Yeah. 

How to Get to Good Work

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: you know, you are often working with people, and you yourself are sort of seeking to do good work in the world.

But I'm thinking about, you know, you have a wealth of experience, be it at Tulane, at Stanford, in some of the work that you're doing now as an entrepreneur, where you're helping people to think about, you know, how they're doing that work and, and, and helping them, like we said earlier, to be able to, you know, set a- set some goals for what happens after the conference.

How do people work together? Mm-hmm. but you know, a lot of the folks that I work with especially are people who are, either s- just starting their careers or they're people who are maybe they've been doing their career and then they're pivoting. I was wondering if you have any advice, for people who might just be sort of starting their path toward good work and you know, They know they wanna do something on behalf of the public good, but they're struggling to sort of figure it out, or they're struggling to figure out how to make it possible. any tips or any advice, you know, if someone wanted to be like a, you know, like a social entrepreneur like you are in a way.

What would you recommend to them? Is there any sort of action step? Is there some sort of reflection activity that you have done in the past that you think they might benefit from considering? wherever you wanna go with this I'm open to. 

Shanice Webb: Yeah. No, that's, that's such a great question.

I, I'm thinking you're familiar with Carol Dweck's work around like- Yeah ... passion and work, where, um, I think the research is only like 20% of people know what they're passionate about. The other 80% of people are figuring it out or have too many passions- Yeah ... or things that they're interested in, to just name one.

Um, and her research is very powerful because it shows that, like active engagement over time often leads to passion, but passion doesn't typically come first. So when you're young in your career- first of all, I don't like to give advice, but I'll share a little bit from my own experience. I don't know if I- 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Yes

Shanice Webb: That advice is really hard 'cause I feel like it's really unique to, to the person. Yeah. But I do feel like curious engagement or active engagement over time can often help you get a lot of clarity around, what feels like good work for you, where are the communities you wanna create impact, where are the, the social justice challenges, or just whatever's happening in the world.

A lot of that, one, comes with time. So if you're young and you're starting out and you don't know yet, that's okay. Stay engaged, stay curious, and that will start to show up for you over time. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Yeah. 

 

Ikigai And Prototyping

Shanice Webb: Also, are you familiar with ikigai? Ikigai is, like, a- It 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: sounds familiar. 

Shanice Webb: Yeah. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: just not placing it right now.

Shanice Webb: So ikigai is, like, this ... It's, like, multiple- Mm-hmm ... Venn diagrams that, like, overlap each other, and it's, like, what you're good at, what you love, what the world needs, and what you can- Yes ... get paid for. So it's, like, an overlap- Yeah ... of those four things. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Yeah. 

Shanice Webb: What you're good at, what you actually enjoy doing, what the world needs, and what you get paid for.

It's all part of, like, this- Yes ... ikigai Venn diagram. And I think it's worthwhile or could be helpful- Yeah ... for someone to reflect on those things. Yeah. Like, just take a moment and think about those four brackets. Like, well, what skills do you have? What are you good at? Or what do you want to be good at?

Like, even if you don't have the skill right now, what can you- Yeah ... put time and energy into to feel knowledgeable, to feel skilled, to feel like a, an expert in something where you could- Mm-hmm ... potentially make money from it in the future? And then going in that second Venn diagram circle, well, what do you love?

What are you curious about? What's important to you? Who do you wanna serve? What issues make you angry? Which issues make you happy? So taking time to reflect and, like, write that out- what do we need? What problems do you wanna solve? And I think the what can we get paid for is something that's not, right now, I think as important to reflect on, because I think that changes over time, and what- Yeah ... one person might be willing to pay for, another person might not be willing to pay for.

But I think just thinking about that in terms of if you're gonna make a career out of it, like what are the industries? Yeah. Who are the organizations? Who are the people who are actually paying for this work to be done in the world? And I think if you can reflect on those four things and find somewhere where those places overlap- Yeah

that's a place to try to prototype. Not like, oh, this spot in the Venn diagram- ... hits all four circles. Right. This is the end-all be-all. Yeah. But if that's where you wanna start, and know that 99% of the time, where you start is not where you finish. You're gonna iterate. You're gonna gain so much more knowledge and information and skills that, like, you're gonna have to pivot at some point in time- Yeah

especially with how fast the world is working. But at least having a starting place reflecting on those four things or just checking out what ikigai is. I think it's a good reflective activity.

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Well, I think as you mention that, a couple things come to mind for me. One is that your first point about active engagement, in a way those could sort of keep those circles shifting a little bit. Like, as someone's actively engaging, they're learning more- what they care about.

Mm-hmm. they're learning more what the world needs. 

 

Hidden Jobs And AI Limits

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: and I think something that, I think is important is to broaden our awareness or our imagination of what jobs are out there in the world.

Shanice Webb: Mm-hmm. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Again, I think that's part of what I'm hoping to do with the podcast, and part of why I'm inviting wonderful people like you who are doing these really creative and cutting edge roles, is that I don't think most people, before you and I were speaking today, probably would know that there is such a job as a learning experience designer.

Shanice Webb: you're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: So I feel like in a way we might have to broaden, like, that circle of what you're willing to be... Like, what the world is willing to pay for. That might be a place that I might suggest we focus on a little bit. So differing a little bit on this one- Yeah, yeah ... in that, which again, I know we're both good at, creative, disagreement and sort of constructive, conversations.

Shanice Webb: Well, actually as you're mentioning it I'm like, "Well, maybe that is impactful." Yeah, like maybe I've changed my mind. Yeah. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: 'Cause I just think there's so many things out there that you know, they're just jobs, there's hidden, roles. There's people who are doing really important work that it doesn't make the news.

It doesn't, you know, it's not listed when a student maybe at my university goes to, what are the jobs for someone who has a political science degree or a sociology degree or an engineering degree? They might not list certain sorts of jobs that frankly might, might be only newly created, right?

Something that's only just coming, into fruition because of the changing world. or just things that people just, they're just not on folk's radar. And so, I don't know, I feel like that's a space where I'm hoping to open it up a little bit and demystify and sort of like just share examples of people that are you know, models. 'Cause someone might say, "Oh, I love this idea of what Shanice is doing in terms of, learning experience design," but, you know, I would love to see is that possible, something that I could do in this setting, or is there a way that I can tweak it and do on a issue that matters to me?

Maybe they just heard about, you know, the example you gave earlier about working with some folks who are doing environmental issues. Maybe that's piqued something and they say, "Wow, you know, I would love to be in a intergenerational justice base- space. I didn't know that existed." Yeah.

Shanice Webb: Yeah. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: So even beyond your job and the things you're doing, I feel like you're just, talking with you is giving people other ideas too. 

Shanice Webb: Yeah. And I'm curious, I, I know we're about to close this conversation, but- 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Yeah ... 

Shanice Webb: when you think about supporting students and navigating what those possibilities are, knowing that the world is changing so fast, but we're- Yeah

in a space where we are the people who get to create the jobs and the roles and, and what's coming next. And I know a lot of it is from the fear of AI, but I'm curious in your experience and, professional role in general, do you find that AI could be a really great place to help people generate or to broaden their perspective or awareness of what is possible?

Or do you feel like AI, since it is, like, it's generative based off of what people put in and what is out there in the world- Yeah ... do you think it kinda will just give people the same ideas of what's kind of already out there? Do you think it could help us be more creative in thinking about those jobs?

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: I think that there's a possibility that it could at least, like, start you on a path toward, finding things that maybe are not, as well known. But I think, sadly, I think a lot of the roles that are actually out there, I don't even know how you would design a prompt for the chat to sort of say, like, "Find the jobs that are out there, that are, no, don't quite exist yet," or- That nobody 

Shanice Webb: knows about.

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Yeah. Or, you know, what's the most meaningful thing? I guess the, The part about AI that I, that always is hard for me as, as someone who's a professor, an educator, is that I feel like I don't want it to diminish the skills that we need to synthesize and discern and and to even do the research ourselves, how to, to know how to ask good questions.

So I think, you know, Maybe there's some prompt I could think of- Okay ... that could be useful, like for someone interested in the environment. But I would say more, it's, it's more likely to be that AI would not be capturing or bringing those to the forefront of somebody's, imagination because- I just don't know that anybody thinks about it that way so much right now.

and if it's just replicating and sort of building off of what has already been discussed, I feel like there's not enough out there, even if there are some pockets where it's being talked about. I feel like there's just not enough to kind of overwhelm the, the more traditional roles that, you know, my hunch is it the things that the AI would produce would be very comparable to what it's already being- 

Shanice Webb: Glassdoor. Yeah. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Yeah. 

Shanice Webb: Indeed. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Yeah. 

Shanice Webb: Yeah. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Yeah. But I'll think about it. 

Shanice Webb: No, I agree with you. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: I'll think about it.

Shanice Webb: I was just curious. I, 'cause I know people a lot are, right now are, are telling students to, to use AI to help them generate ideas in that way, especially when it comes to career development, all those things.

Yeah. 

And yeah, I, I think that it could be helpful, but I also think talking, like, listening to podcasts that are taking the time to talk to people who are doing unconventional jobs and sharing it in, in this kind of way, ChatGPT will never be able to capture. So your work is so important and so good. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: That is very kind of you to say.

Um, do we have time to ask a couple last questions? Yeah. Uh-huh. Okay. Yeah. Let's ask a couple last questions. 

Quick Questions

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: So I'm gonna just ask you, what is your career that got away? Ooh. that thing that you know you could have done or wish you could have done, and maybe let's not put it as, like, it's gone forever.

Is there- Yeah ... something that, you know, it still maybe tempts your, your interest, Yeah ... here or there? 

Shanice Webb: Yeah. So two things- ... come to mind, actually. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Okay. 

Shanice Webb: So a little story. When I was in fifth or sixth grade, I had this teacher, Miss Pushcar, who I'm still in communication with, who I love so much.

she was my English teacher, and she saw something in me when I was a kid, around writing, and I love storytelling. I, I created plays with her, and she entered me into this contest called Power of the Pen, and it was, like, a writing competition where you had a certain amount of time, you had to write these short stories, and then people, read the stories and you got ranked, and there was a winner at the end of who had the best story at the Power of the Pen.

There was, like, 300 students from across the state of Ohio who were in this competition, and I think I placed, like, 150 or something. In that moment, I know she was trying to support me, and she believed in me, and she really wanted me to, like, bring my skills and, hone in my writing, but that experience totally deterred me from writing.

Mm-hmm. I just felt like I'm not a great writer. I can't do this. And I distinctly remember the feedback being something around, like, my story being too far out there- Yeah ... like, not realistic and, like, just, like, not grounded in any... Which could have been true. I was a kid and I could have said all kind of crazy things, but I think that was also my superpower when I was a kid.

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Yeah ... 

Shanice Webb: I got placed 150, and it just killed my confidence. I didn't believe I was a good writer- And then I just started posting and writing more, on LinkedIn, and I keep getting comments from friends and just from people like, "Oh, this is such a great story.

You're such a good storyteller." And I'm just like, maybe I've always been supposed to tell stories. Yeah. And the, what I write on LinkedIn is the story about entrepreneurship and the journey and the work that I'm doing out there in the world, so maybe I just now have something for me that feels worth writing about.

But I feel like writing is something that I feel like is a missed career, missed opportunity because I was told as a kid that I wasn't good at it. But now I, I think there's, there could be something that happens in the future around writing. Yeah. Like, I don't think that I want to write a book, but I do think, like, maybe a consistent blog or a Substack or, like, something like that that feels more aligned with where I am. So that could be a to-be-continued. But one that really I can't let go of, but I also haven't put any energy into this, is I would love to be the host of The Great British Baking Show, or any baking competition. Like, I know I'm not British and I don't have a British accent, and I probably, like, could never be the host on The Great British Baking Show, but at least on- 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: That might be a requirement!

Shanice Webb: Yeah. But maybe, like, the Food Network, like, the Spring Bake Off or- Yeah. Yeah ... like, Is It Cake? Or, like, something like that. Like, I feel like my skill in facilitation and public speaking and keynoting and all the things that I've done would naturally make me a good, host in, like, hosting a show.

And the reason why I wanna host, like, a f- like, a baking show is because I love sweets. And I love watching... That's my... Like, if you look at my Netflix algorithm, it's all, baking shows. Like- Yeah ... anything that you can do that's, baking competition reality. but I, I, I, I love to taste and enjoy, like, new kinds of, like, combinations of sweets, and I, and I do bake But I wanna be the baker.

I just wanna be the host so I can taste. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen:  Taster! 

Shanice Webb: Yeah. Yeah. I wanna be the taster so I can taste. I, I watch these shows, I'm like, "I wish I could taste that." Yeah. And what's so crazy is one of my favorite, bakers from the Food Network...

So there's one that has, that's actually from France, who's been on a couple of my favorite baking shows, and it's so crazy, I manifested this. But he just opened a bakery three, nine minutes, three blocks from my house.

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Wow. 

Shanice Webb: And so I actually am now getting to taste some of the bakes that I saw- Oh ... that I s- like now I'm tasting his actual bakes. So I'm just like, maybe there is a version of this that's like I'm not on a show, but maybe I just, go have a conversation with him and- 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Yeah ... 

Shanice Webb: So yeah, a writer or the host on The Great British Baking Show. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Maybe, maybe it's a combo. 

Shanice Webb: Maybe it's a combo. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Well, my, my last question for you is, well, two. And I'll just ask them both. So is there anyone who is inspiring you at the moment? Anyone you're collaborating with or anybody that you, are kind of keeping an eye on, on LinkedIn or wherever?

maybe the baker down the street. 

And then also, where can people... what's next for you, and how can folks learn more about you or your work? 

Shanice Webb: Yeah. 

Play Inspired By Parenting

Shanice Webb: A lot of my work right now is inspired by my son. Yeah Getting an opportunity to be, like, in this state of play.

Now you look at my dining room table, it constantly is, like, is still... if I show you a picture now, it's not clean. It's full of, like, scissors and tape and paper and balloons and markers and just, like, I just keep all this creative stuff out so it's accessible to him and so a lot of the activities that I do with him end up showing up, like, in a learning experience- Yeah ... or something that I facilitate. Like the puzzles that I talk about, like, me and him, we do puzzles all the time, and it was sparked by that idea, like, oh, when's the last time an adult sat down and, not a 1,000-piece puzzle, but like a, a really small puzzle?

Yeah. But mix it up, make it creative. So a lot of that work is inspired by him, and that sense of play that I get to engage in- Yeah ... with him. I just, like, look at him and, like, of course I want him to grow up and be healthy, human, and flourish, but I look at him, I'm like, "Don't ever grow up. Stay this small."

Like, "It's so much fun playing with you." and which brings me to your next question, which is, like, what do I have coming up? So- 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Yeah ... 

Adult Play Dates Next

Shanice Webb: since I'm trying to live in this space of alignment and create space to sustain myself and make my work sustainable, I said no to a really big opportunity, as I mentioned, and it created space for me to imagine what would it be if I just created my own space?

Mm-hmm. And so I am playing with this idea of having adult play dates. So I always take my four-year-old to play dates, and they have so much fun, and the adults just sit and watch the kids play Yeah ... and talk. But I'm like, "I want a play date." Like, I wanna play- 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Yeah ... 

Shanice Webb: with adults, but make it intentional.

Yeah. So I'm hosting my very first play date here in the Bay Area at this really awesome place. It's called The Department of Make-Believe. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Okay ... 

Shanice Webb: run by this organization called Chapter 510, where they support youth with, youth literacy in terms of, helping kids learn how to not just only, read and enjoy reading, but write books, create their own stories and poetry, and they actually, do book-making, and it's a really creative and vibrant space. I think it's the perfect space for adults to come- and to just get into an environment that doesn't feel like your day-to-day and to play. I'm actually taking it back to, my Millennial days. I'm a Millennial, and have you ever, played with...

What are these things called? Like, cootie catchers I think some people call them, with the paper where you, like, put the numbers and the color, and you- Yes, yes ... have someone choose and you're like, and you flip it up- Yes ... and like that's your... With that, and then did you ever play MASH growing up? Have you heard of MASH?

Yes. Yes. Okay. So I'm playing with some ideas of, like, the ways I used to play and think about my future when I was a kid, what if I were to create or facilitate a learning experience that taps into our childlike... Like, MASH is like, you know, like, a mansion, house, shack or apartment. I think that's what MASH- Yeah

And then you, like, put, like, what are five names of people you could marry in the future? What are five cars that you could drive? What are five houses that you can live? And I want people to play and imagine, Yeah .. I'm playing with ideas that we used to engage in as kids and we think about our future, but how do we make them more tangible, more realistic now, but approach it in, in a fun, playful way, in a very fun and playful environment. So playing with some new ideas, some new concepts, trying out some, some cool things, and really trying to do things more locally in community here in the Bay. 

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Yeah. '

Shanice Webb: Cause as I mentioned, last year and a half I was traveling a lot, going on a lot of airplanes to the East Coast, and I'm like, "Huh, I think I actually wanna do more work where I actually live."

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Yeah ... 

Shanice Webb: what if I just hosted and facilitated something locally?

 

Where To Find Shanice Webb

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: And where can people connect with you on LinkedIn? Is that best for folks? 

Shanice Webb: Yeah, LinkedIn- Okay ... is best. I also have my website, which is www.transcend-thought.com.

and that's where you can, find more about my work, my design sprints, and a little bit more about me, too. 

 

Closing Reflections

Amy Cabrera Rasmussen: Well, thank you so much, Shanice, for being part of the podcast. it was such a pleasure to speak with you.

Yeah. And, I just think people are, are gonna learn so much about, not only the certain role that you have, but I think your approach is something that, is just gonna inspire people. And I love that at each step of the way you always emphasize that, the same thing that I think is really important, which is we each have to find our own unique path, our own unique way.

Like, two people could have the same job, but they might approach it quite differently. Very differently. And, and I love that you kept bringing, that theme up for us throughout. So thank you so much. 

Shanice Webb: Yeah. Thank you for having me. It's been such a joy. Thank you.